Immunotherapy Options for GBM: Froceth vs IOZK. Any Experience or Suggestions?

[boray]

Hi Al & all,

Froceth in Vilnius and IOZK in Cologne are two immunotherapy centres that offer (among other modes of immuno-oncological therapies) dendritic vacines that would not require fresh / frozen tumour tissue (Gliovac and DCVax-L, on the other hand, requires fresh / properly frozen tissue, which most patients including my father do not have).

Their costs are quite different though as listed below (IOZK: > EUR 70k, Froceth: EUR 10k).

I wonder if these options are worthwhile executing (subject to budget constraints) and in particular if anyone in the forum has any experience / thought / recommendation for a 72-year old GBM patient (IDH-wild type, MGMT methylated) in this context.

I also wonder what makes the two costing schemes quite different and that whether there is anyone here who benefited from these options (particularly from the Froceth immunotherapy).

IOZK: Therapy Costs | IOZK

Froceth:

"
First of all, the doctor chemotherapist together with PhD. immunologist have to examine and evaluate medical conditions of the patient and decide whether or not to apply an immunotherapy of dendritic cell vaccine (DCV) or cytokine induced killer cells (CIK).

We could arrange a teleconsultation with the patient. The price of teleconsultation is 120 euros. After that, if the doctors decide to apply a treatment of DCV or CIK, the patient (or donor) must come to Vilnius for a blood draw in order to produce the product.


So there are two products of immunotherapy:

• Dendritic cell vaccine (https://www.innovitaclinic.com/immun...-cell-vaccine/) - 7000 euros
• Cytokine induced natural killers (https://www.innovitaclinic.com/immun...duced-killers/) - 6050 euros
• Immunotherapy of dendritic cell vaccine and cytokine induced natural killers - 10 000 euros.

All the treatment is applied in the clinic in Vilnius.
"

Many thanks,

Bora Y.

[musella]

Are those prices for 1 treatment or for the entire course of treatment? Can you summarize the differences between the vaccines and tell us what the reported results are so far? How about safety combining the 2 immunotherapies. Do they use any immune enhancers?
My thoughts are that any of the vaccines or cell therapies are worth a try.

[boray]

Hi Al -- I have just asked Froceth to further elucidate, and to provide any track records for GBM so far. I will keep the forum posted once I have a response.

For IOZK, there is a paper (alongside other documents) that provide some form of evidence for the effectiveness of their immuno-therapy though surely it is not based on a fully randomised prospective design (I can also share that and the other documents via mail).

Best regards,

BY

[musella]

Yes. Please send them via email. Thanks.
One of my friends tried IOZK. She had the vaccine as well as a few other therapies there. She did well for a while but unfortunately died recently. I know a few others who tried it and I do not think any of them are still alive. That doesn't mean it doesn't help - just that it didn't cure them. On the other hand I know a few patients from the DCVAX and ICT-107 trials that are still alive over 7 years later with GBMs.

[Harvey]

those are two different kind of immunotherapies. Froceth is based on allogeneic antigen presented trough dc vaccination . I can imagine if you have your tissue frozen, they could produce combined vaccination(allogeneic + your own). Therefore you would get something similar to ERC vaccination (phase II stopped because of early success!).

IOZK is immunotherapy based on oncolytic virus (NDV).

I would do them both since in principle they have no side effects.

[musella]

Unfortunately, what "makes sense" doesn't usually work in practice. The only way to tell is to try it in a group of patients. Then for the ones it works on, try to figure out why it worked on them, and then why it did not work on the nonresponders. Then try combinations of treatments and focus on what is working and what makes those responders respond while the nonresponders do not. Then try to engineer a way to make them all responders.

[netopolis]

Yes. Please send them via email. Thanks.
One of my friends tried IOZK. She had the vaccine as well as a few other therapies there. She did well for a while but unfortunately died recently. I know a few others who tried it and I do not think any of them are still alive. That doesn't mean it doesn't help - just that it didn't cure them. On the other hand I know a few patients from the DCVAX and ICT-107 trials that are still alive over 7 years later with GBMs.

If you can say, what was your friends diagnosis - GBM or lower grade?

[musella]

She was originall diagnosed as a low grade glioma and it progressed into a gliobglastoma

[boray]

... and then there are the CeGaT and the Pan American multi-peptide vaccine options to consider (notwithstanding their high costs, long manufacturing time, the need for the patient to travel and the ubiquitous lack of type-1 evidence for such immunotherapy alternatives).

[musella]

There will be another alternative soon for people in the USA. One of my friends started a nonprofit to create a new neoantigen vaccine. They treated their first patient and will expand soon. Will let you know when it is generally avaialble. For now, the patient will pay the manufacturing costs. If anyone is interested, contact me privately.

[chofertikh]

Could you please let me know about the US nonprofit? How do I message you privately? Apologies, am new here. Thank you.

[davidfinn]

I'd be interested in knowing more about it. Trying to stay up on what is happening all around.

[musella]

Details will be available soon but if anyone needs it talk to me.

[jordaneast]

It really helped me alot

[rgammon]

Hi all, I'd be very interested in hearing about people's experiences with the IOZK clinic in Cologne.

My wife has a grade 4 astrocytoma. I enquired about immunotherapy options via the contact email address on their website, but got an odd response which has given me doubts. The reply came from the personal email address of Stefaan Van Gool, which was brief and had a very casual tone. I was expecting an offer of a consultation to discuss options, pros & cons etc... but instead Dr Gool proposed that we make appointments for the next couple of weeks to receive treatment. Not really sure what treatments because it was such a brief email.

This has left me feeling very uncomfortable about dealing with IOZK, but on the other hand, there are so few options available I don't want to write them off.

Don't know how to proceed.

[musella]

Where do you live? That might just mean they are very busy but it is a red flag. I had heard good and bad things. Obviously, it doesn't work for everyone but then again nothing does. May be worth a try

[rgammon]

We are in the UK, so it's not out of the question to visit Cologne. Will try to find out more about them.